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job he found, which was at Western Illinois University
interested in mythology before then, but as a very aca-
in Macomb. That s where I grew up. Macomb is a very
demic sort of thing. It wasn t until I had that course
odd town, because it s in the middle of Bible belt rural
that I began to see the relationship between the dry
America, but it is a university town. As a result, I grew
and dusty mythology that you read about in Bullfinch
up very strange: a faculty brat in a culture that I was
and people s real emotions and religious needs. I be-
very much not a part of.
lieve it s that course, more than any other at Carleton
or indeed any other time in my life that made me real-
Almost the only person in Macomb that I still feel com-
ize that there is another dimension to the human expe-
fortable talking to is my high school librarian, who
rience besides the academic one.
graduated from Grinnell College. She suggested that I
look at Grinnell, or more generally at the Associated
Eric: Is that a course that you encountered real early at
Colleges of the Midwest. When I discovered Carleton,
Carleton?
I applied here for early admission, and was subsequently
accepted. I came here because of my roots, I think. [I
was] an ardent Republican, but events in Vietnam and Dick: Fall term of my sophomore year.
on campus changed that fairly soon. I m now consider-
ably more liberal, and now find myself in America at
Eric: Since it s relevant, as we get into talking about the Dru-
large sort of isolated and in the millieu of a culture in
ids, do you want to say something about your religious
which I no longer feel I belong. So in a very real sense,
background? You said that was when you first learned
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you had a soul; did you have a religious background But I cannot call myself religious, and it wasn t until
when you came to Carleton? Porter s mythology course that I began to understand
what religion really is about, and why it is that religion
exists as part of human culture. That was the begin-
Dick: My emotional framework is very much a product of my
ning of a very profound change for me. I m not sure
father, who is a typical product of rural Illinois: dyed-
that most people would call me religious now. On the
in-the-wool Republican, very stiff upper lip. It s almost
other hand, in a very real sense I am a very religious
a cardinal sin to show emotion. I remember vividly
person, and I think the conjunction of the mythology
one occasion: he had borrowed a tape recorder from
course and my introduction to Druidism broadened
the university for some reason I forget what it was now
my life dramatically. My spring term sophomore year
but we were having fun just trying it out. At one point
academically was a disaster, but in a very real sense it
he read some Shakespeare into the thing. I thought
was the beginning of my life.
that was rather interesting; I mean, I had never thought
of my father as being interested in literature at all. It
turns out in fact that his main extra-curricular activity Eric: Let s talk about your introduction to Druidism and your
at Illinois College had been the literary society, but I memories of your first encounters with this on cam-
didn t know that, which gives you some indication of pus, or how you got involved.
how much he kept things bottled up inside. At one
point he read out In Flanders Fields, which com- Dick: Early in sophomore year there was an article in the
memorates the fallen in World War I, and about mid-
Tonian about Druids, and it mentioned that there were
way through he started choking up. After a while, he
three on campus. There was a photo showing all three
just gave up trying to finish the poem, and said, What s
of them holding a service. I didn t really think very
the matter with me? I don t understand. There was a
much of it at the time. It so happened, however, that
big block on the expression of emotion of any sort.
one of the three, the Arch-Druid, was a good friend of
mine by the name of Steven Savitzky, who was two
In addition to this, my father, rather atypically for rural years ahead of me. Steven was involved with a group of
Illinois, was a devout atheist. When I was growing up, people on Third Burton, which was a hot-bed of cam-
I remember a couple of occasions once in nursery pus radicalism at the time. The ring-leader, undoubt-
school and once in kindergarten, I think once in first edly, was Joe Schuman. (Both Joe and Steve were class
grade some attempt was made to make me familiar of 69.)
with Christianity, but it was clear that it was not some-
thing my parents were part of, and it was not some-
Joe Schuman looms large in my view of Carleton, and
thing that I was particularly interested in, really. It didn t
I think many people s. He was, I believe, in Israel my
really touch my life very much. Basically, it involved
freshman year, so I didn t meet him until my sopho-
just being dropped off at Sunday school and picked
more year, when he came back as a senior. I was taking
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